The Grace Interview

Motopod, proudly supported by Road Skin, a UK label specializing in protective outerwear for motorcyclists. Modern biker clothing that you can wear all day long and engineered to save your skin. For the road, for life, visit roadskin.co.uk Welcome to Motopod, the internet radio show all about motorcycle road racing. This is episode number 757. I'm Jim McDowell and this is a special long interview episode.

So I reached out to Grace from the Park for May podcast. It's a Formula One podcast, yes. But Grace is an avid MotoGP fan and as a female, I wanted to see her reaction to what she believes attracted her to the sport. We've always seen the surveys from MotoGP about we need more eyeballs and we need more female fans and we need to increase the revenue stream that's being created. Well how do you do all that?

They sent out surveys and we replied back to those surveys as fans. But the unique thing about Grace is not only she's a fan, she also understands surveys. It's kind of what she does for her job. Her insight into why she's a part of the sport, her insight into what she sees about the sport is uniquely different than say what myself or Rich see in the sport. So hopefully you guys will get something out of this interview.

It's quite entertaining. We talk about many different things and quite honestly, it was a really fun interview to do. And with that. Hey, Motor Potters. It's Jim here with special guests tonight.

She has her own podcast. It's all about cars. It's called the Park for May. You've probably heard her before. With me is Grace.

Grace, I don't have a panel board. I'm sorry, I can't do Todd. But glad to have you on my pod. And specifically because I love the fact that even though you have a Formula One podcast, you always somehow seem to in the albums cat section, bring MotoGP into it. So I thought I would give you a forum to express your GP-ness in a better forum.

So thank you for coming on. Thanks for having me, Jim. I mean, that's that's hilarious. We do get feedback from people that like we get it, Grace. Would you rather be talking about MotoGP than Formula One?

I can't help it. I don't understand. I don't understand why more people don't watch MotoGP. And literally every time somebody is like, I hate this about Formula One. I'm like, well, dot, dot, dot.

Well, MotoGP already figured that out. Or well, if you watched over here, it's not like that at all. So I'm always bringing it back over to motorcycles as our listeners are one to point out. Like, Grace, this is a Formula One podcast. Well, I guess it means I get to talk about what I want is really it.

I agree. So the first thing is, is like, I want to know how you discovered MotoGP, because as a female, there's not a lot of there are more now being represented. There are more girls that are racing. You have a woman world champion from Gosh, just blanked out on her name from 300 Supersport. And then she went back to Moto3 again.

I'll think of it. I'll think of it in a second or two. But anyway, there's that. But in there's not a lot of advertising or it's not commonly known in the United States that MotoGP exists and where racing motorcycles doesn't really exist. So I'm trying to understand.

I want to understand how you got there. So I really got into Formula One first. I started watching Formula One. I dated an engineer in college. He watched Formula One.

They're engineers. They all did that. So then, you know, the relationship didn't last, but I kept watching Formula One. And then it just sort of it's kind of like when you like you have your first kind of chocolate or your first beer or something. Then somebody goes, well, here's this other kind of beer and here's this other kind of beer.

And before you know, you're like, oh, my God, I didn't know I just thought it was Miller Light, right? Or something, right? And like, so I easily was like, oh, rally cars. I'll watch that World Superbike. I'll watch that MotoGP.

I'll watch that. I think it's sort of like once I kind of got into cars and motorsports, it just like snowballed from there. And then and MotoGP, I think is it's so compelling. It's so compelling to watch. I always tell people, like, if I was trying to convince somebody to get into motorsports, I think it's easier to convince somebody by watching a MotoGP race because you can see the bike, you can see the lean, you can see the action, which is much more nuanced and much harder to see in Formula One, especially back in like 2000 when you didn't get out of like in-car camera shots and you couldn't just watch one driver or whatever, you know, like, don't you see the way Alonzo's turning the wheels?

I knew fans not watching that. Right. But you can say to somebody, see how Rossi took that turn. They can see that. I think that's what makes motorcycle watching, whether it's World Superbikes or whatever, easier than car racing to get somebody into motorsports.

And so, I mean, it helped that it was when I started watching when I did, you know, it's sort of like, you know, you had Sede Gibrano and Max Biagi and Valentino Rossi was such like, you know, and then you had a lot of American riders. There was like four or five at that time, you know, Nicky, Colin Edwards. Yeah. So. Offenses there.

Right. Right. So it was like it was super easy to like get into, know who to root for, like and just I was just sucked right into it. And so, yeah. So even though I do do a Formula One podcast, I do bring up MotoGP all the time because I think people are really missing an opportunity to watch as much motorsports as you can by not watching MotoGP.

So you got hooked on it just from watching it on TV as opposed to actually being at the having someone take you to the track. That is correct. I as we were discussing earlier, we actually met. I went to the IndyCar, the IndyCar race. I went to the MotoGP race in Indianapolis in like 2010, I think.

Todd and I went and that we had met and Jules, I met Jules. And so he forced Randy to Pugnier to take a picture with me. That was like. You're probably taller than Randy, to be honest. I was, but I think he was on his way to the bathroom and I was like, oh, Jules, just like, I said, no, we're getting like it became a mission.

He was like, oh, we're going to get this picture. I'm like, OK, OK. So I still have that picture because that was its own internal joke, because I think often women are told like you only watch because they're attractive. I'm like, that is not it at all. And it was, you know, like now we talk about how Fabio Quartararo never wears a shirt and always has his leathers on zippers.

He's like George Russell of, you know, MotoGP or whatever. And so what I didn't know was they'd followed Randy Pugnier, who was not like top tier rider, but they followed him back into his pit box, pit area. And he had unzipped his leathers. And I was like, well, I didn't know that was under there. Because he had no shirt on.

Right. So I was just like, so this to me was evidence that I don't watch this because they're just attractive. I had no idea that they didn't wear shirts underneath their leathers. And so that was what sort of like snowballed that Randy Pugnier story that then led to the Indy race. So, yeah, going to Austin this year will be the first.

It will only be the second race I've ever been to. And yeah, Indy isn't a very good representation of MotoGP. It wasn't a very good representation of Formula One either. But I was it was easy to get to. So I'm looking forward to going to Austin to a proper circuit to see another MotoGP race.

It'd be fun to be down there. We'll meet up. I'll try to show you some of the things, point some stuff out over there. But the thing is where I'm wondering, the hook, what where's that? What was the hook?

What is what? What about the sport grabbed you and said, I need to know more? Because I know you always talk about this with Todd. And I think the same thing applies to motorcycles, is that we cannot. Explain qualifying to you every weekend as you as it's you.

There's that lowest common denominator part of it. There's some of the stuff you have to figure out for yourself. So I'm trying to figure out like, what was that little bit that said, yeah, I got to watch this again, I get to watch it again. That grabbed you. I again, I think it's just I mean, it's it's.

It's just so much easier. I just think that you can you can you don't have to have an advanced engineering degree, which I still think you kind of need in Formula One. Even when they talk about the bikes, like there isn't, you know, I don't need to get into this, like level of detail in order to enjoy the racing, you know, or you can, you know, now, like with all the, you know, they put all the sticky bits on the bikes now. So but you can see you can visually see very easily how an Aprilia looks different from a Honda, which looks different from a Yamaha in a way that you like. I don't know.

Does a Mercedes Formula One car look different than a Red Bull car? Yeah, if I like write down with my microscope, maybe I can see where the difference is. But the bikes are so very different and and just them them passing each other and they get close to each other. And then you watch the like on boards and it's like, whoa, you know. So you just don't get that in Formula One, which I feel is OK.

I think Formula One is the Guinness of beers. That's all the analogy I use. So you may watch one Formula One racing at one great pass. It's a Guinness. It's not a Corona, right?

That's NASCAR. You just want to watch a lot of passing. Watch that or watch IndyCar or watch something else. But MotoGP, that. I really even a boring MotoGP race still has passing and action to it in a way that a boring Formula One race does not.

And so I just I mean, maybe I was already hooked. You know, like I said, I used to watch if I had more time in the day, more time in my weekend. I always start out every season like I want to watch WRC because I think WRC also, even though it's just one car going at a time, is there's just something so great about watching that and how they, you know, turn or jump or whatever. And and how it's explained to you that I'm like, oh, I want to watch WRC. And then like MotoGP starts and Formula One starts.

And I'm like, well, I don't know. I got two races. That's all I got out of WRC. I've always believed that it was one of these things. It's kind of like ice hockey.

Ice hockey doesn't translate well to to television. There's something about the smell of a hockey rink when you walk into it, that that ice creates a smell that's different than anything else. And you don't understand one, the speed at which these guys can skate, pass and shoot. And you do not get the sound of what happens when one of these guys crashes into the boards with another guy. And when you get somebody to a game, they're like, yeah, I get it now.

I understand what's going on. I think motorcycles are the same way. It's very hard for someone to look at it and not and not understand what's going on. Like you can look at it. Wow.

Yeah, that guy's leaned over really super far. I guess he's going to fall off. Whereas if it's a car, you're wrapped up in this cage. So I get that whole part of it. And the thing to me is, is that what I what I like is like they did a fan survey.

MotoG, Formula One's done the fan survey. MotoGP's done the fan survey. You have you are that's part of your profession is surveys, which is the other reason that I want to talk to you about this, because when they did the fan survey, it was like this. I think I know enough that you taught me enough through the years listening to the surveys that there was no definitive answer that they were looking for. That the survey was a random set of numbers with questions that were never linked into it, because the survey has to come back to you in a way that makes some sense.

So could you sort of explain that to people? Sure. I'm going to tell another story in order to get to that story. Right. So as I am also likely to do so, you know, people ask us about Formula One, ask us about MotoGP, like how is you as a woman gotten in this sport?

And how do we get more women to watch this sport? And I think create a good product. My viewership or my consumption of this sport doesn't change because my organs are different than your organs. Right. Like there's nothing inherently different between how we consume the sport or enjoy this sport.

So you just have to build a good product. And if you build a good product, people will want to watch it and be worth watching. And then you have to think about how are ways I can make, you know, other populations involved in the sport. But you have to start from a place of if you want teams to be more diverse, you have to do it because it brings more ideas. You're going to create the best bike if you can bring the best, the most ideas into it, right, from different corners of the world and different perspectives.

That's what's going to get you the best bike. That's what you have to say, not, oh, we're all a team of white guys. We need some women. We need some black guys. That's not how you're going to get diversity because you don't really value what diversity brings to your team or your bike.

You're just trying to get eyeballs. It's going to be short sighted and it's going to fail. So I think that's the same with the survey. Like you really have to understand what are you trying to do? And your heart has to be in the right place.

And you have to know what your what data you want. You can't just start with like, we're going to have we're going to create this initiative. And then when the initiative fails, it's because you had no goal. The same thing happens with the survey. Now, this is a marketing survey.

So I don't work on marketing surveys, but that's a very different kind of outcome that you're looking for. But ultimately, what you want to know is like, what is fan engagement? You know, do you want more, you know, stuff around the events? Do you want more support races? You want, I don't know, better bathrooms.

I don't know what, you know, what kind of things you want. But I just remember like their answer categories were really hard. Like, it's kind of a basic thing. Like, if I ask you rank these 10 riders, you're going to be able to rank the top two or three real easy and maybe the bottom two or three real easy. And then you're just going to have a bunch in the middle.

They go like, I don't know. They're all Joe and Zarko. I don't know where they go. Are they great or not great? Right.

Like, they just kind of sit in the middle. And so I think that's that's true. Anytime. So I think that sometimes, especially in marketing firms, like they want to do these cool kind of things. And it's just really hard for a person to kind of wrap their mind around like long lists like that or trying to rank things that people really can't.

They can tell you the most important than the least important. And everything else is everything else is just Joe and Zarko. I don't know. I love Zarko. I don't know why I'm picking on him.

But, you know, it's kind of a mid a midpoint. Really, all they ever told us that they got on the survey was that they needed more eyeballs on the sport, that right. This isn't work. We don't have the audience that we thought that we had. So then it becomes this question of, well, how in the world do you actually bring more people to it?

To me, the product is really one of the best racing products that's out there. Other than I mean, you could make an argument one way or another to some other forms that may be pinnacle. But we're talking World Championship motorsport. Yeah, rally cars is really good if you can find a way to watch it. Other than the WRC app.

Yeah, I think the hardest thing, whether you know, no, I'm interrupting you, because I think that's the problem that MotoGP faces. Formula One used to face this problem, too, like when it used to again and back in the early days in the 2000s, when I started watching, it was on speed. Like in speed was like channels, you know, channel 300 or something. Like you had to buy a package to make sure you had that right. So I think even with MotoGP, some one of our pod listeners was finding like grace just by the app, because they got so tired of me confection every week that it was like, I thought I'd take the MotoGP race, but I didn't because I thought it was on being sport and then being sport didn't exist anymore.

And then it re-existed. And it just became really hard to follow because you never knew where it showed up. And that's when somebody said, just by the app. And I was like, well, duh. And so now I don't even know who carries MotoGP because I just buy the streaming service, but I think just like WRC, I think that's their biggest problem.

Formula One is now on ESPN. It's on the Chiron. People know ESPN in America is where you go for sports. If you have questions, they actually like cover some, you know, Formula One, you know, topic in the highlights. You know, I I talk about that too, right on that on the pod that like it used to be you'd see, you know, ESPN, because they put like the bold topic of like what sport it is and then like the the ticker just goes by.

And it would be like Formula One was coming up and I'm like, oh no, because it was never good because it was either a scandal or somebody died or like it was always a terrible thing. And now it shows up and I'm like, oh, it's just Max Verstappen won the world championship. You know, like I'm so really not used to the fact that Formula One kind of gets carried on ESPN just as another sport. And I think in Tomodo GP or any form of motorcycle racing kind of gets in that space of like gets on a consistent channel, on a relatively consistent time. People can find it.

They know where to look for it. It's a lot easier now. We have technology. It's not just some rabbit ears that I got to hang out the window in order to get the race. Or you just have to buy the buy the app, because it is the only way you can watch WRC is through the app.

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the problem motorcycle racing in general faces in the US is how do you consume it? You can you have. If you want it to be a mainstream sport, a la the baseball, the NASCAR, right?

Football, the NFL rules sports in the US. That's fine. Hey, that's I'm OK with that. But you need to have a known entity of sports, a la ESPN, showing your motorcycle racing, because everyone associates ESPN to sports. If it is a sport, it should be there.

So you have to broker that deal. They've also done the same thing. And Rich would probably agree with me on this one, although I haven't really talked to him about that one, is that they took it away from BBC or ITV doesn't have it. It they don't have it over there. You know, it's on Eurosport, I believe.

I think Eurosport still has a contract for it. But they're being very Dorn is being very protective of this rights that they have. Contrast that to the model that Motive America has had from last year, which is, hey, we're racing. Oh, and by the way, here it is on YouTube. Right.

Go watch you. If you want eyeballs, you get to put it where the eyeballs are. That's how I see it. I agree, because again, I remember, you know, because Bernie Eccleston, that was one of his complaints before the one was like, well, if you want Americans to watch, you're going to get an American driver, you know, driver in this part. I'm like, there are five Americans in MotoGP and it's a better product than your product.

So that is clearly not the reason because many of our fools are out in America or watching MotoGP. And I don't know why that is. So I agree. You have to really get it to where it's it's consistent eyeballs, because if somebody I mean, if somebody said to me, oh, I want grace, you know, you talk about MotoGP all the time. Where do you find it?

Well, now I'd have to Google it because I don't know. But it may not be consistent. I think that it's so hard. I think you just have to mean it's been has like eight channels now. So make a deal with ESPN two or something.

Find some way to get it out there. And I think especially because as an American fan, there's I used to think that there was like a dredges of Formula One news. There's really dredges of MotoGP news here because it's so, I guess, very Italian, very Spanish dominated. So, I mean, whereas at least Formula One, it's very British based. It's a very, you know, embrace in the UK, but at least we share language.

Right. So then we get more content here. But yeah, you got to you got to make that make that leap. But you have you have such a great product. So why aren't you out there pushing it?

Because I do think people people here ride bikes. You see lots of motorcycles. Right. So I think that's one way to get people in and then. So watch it.

I don't know. I just don't know what I've never understood why people I think if you watch it, even if you never go. Um. You you want to watch it again. And now you have two chances every weekend.

You have 44 chances to watch a race. So, you know, I think if you thought they were too long in an hour, now you have a half an hour. You can get you can find a half an hour to watch a race. Yeah, I think that's one of the other things that they don't market well, is that this. But no one is a chess match.

Let's just be honest about that. There's there's a lot of boffins that are on the pit wall. They're running numbers. They're talking about when they're going to pit undercuts, overcuts, how's it going to work, whatever. No, hey, here's a guy.

Here's a bike. Here's a set of tires. Go at it for 45 minutes and have fun. And the only thing you can look at is a pit board that somebody's got on there. There's no radios, there's no ship to shore, but they don't promote that part of it.

Right. I don't think we need a technical. I'm asking you this question more than saying, saying like I'm spouting this like I know, but I don't think you need. I don't think that you need all of the inside of radio and all this technical background. You just need to understand that we're going on this set of tires for 45 minutes, roughly.

And the guy who finishes first wins. There's not a lot else that's going. There's no pit stops. There's no stop. Now, MotoGP gets complicated if it starts to rain, because now we got the two bike rule, because we got to go flag to flag because of satellite time and all that.

But still, it's the first guy to the finish line, whether he changed his bike or not, a sort of irrelevant. But that's the other part that I think isn't really talked about. Hey, when it starts to rain, we change bikes or we do. You know, we don't stop. Right.

It's not that hard. Right. It's kind of like, you know, whether you've ever watched a a 24 hour type race or you've watched Formula One, if it starts to rain, you change tires. Well, we just change bikes instead. It's the same thing.

Yeah. And I think that even with the different tires, right, like, sometimes, you know, somebody one person, you know, will pick a softer rear tire than everybody else. And you're like, well, you don't have to understand tire compounds and know that soft means it's not going to last as long. Right. And so why would why would one person do that on this bike over somebody else doing that?

You know, why would you know, so I think that you don't need to really understand again, high levels of nuance about tires, understand that a softer tire is going to be really fast and then be really not fast, a lot faster than some other, you know, harder compound. Right. That's a very technical explanation of how tires work. So I think that, you know, it's. I just think you could really get more eyeballs into this sport.

And, you know, and I know that the whole like, I call it ride to surprise, but whatever the Moto GP version of Drive to Survive was. Yeah, that was terrible. That was so bad. And they put on Amazon Prime like, who watches it? Like you didn't put on Netflix, you didn't put on Hulu, maybe even.

But like you did not you did not invest into that. Into that what Moto GP does, what Formula One does with Drive to Survive. So I wish they would do something of that caliber, because I do think that's an easy way to get people into it. And once you kind of get them into it through something like that, because now Netflix has a show like Drive to Survive for Tennis. They like every sport now has one of those like everybody.

And ESPN really mastered this idea of like 30 for 30 kind of films where you really like hone in on this one thing and now you're like or like Hard Knocks or something like that. You're really obsessed now with this, you know, the Cleveland Browns lie because you watch their their season of Hard Knocks. And now you know who these people are and you're really invested in a football. So into this one team. And I think that's something you can you can spread because then that becomes the gateway.

It's no longer a friend or a parent or, you know, like that's how many of us get into these sports is because somebody else watched it. And so now I watch it. But now I can watch something on Netflix and that kind of serves that place of that person because they can get you into like, this is why this is an interesting thing or this storyline with this storyline is really interesting. Here's why. So I do hope they don't kind of abandon that idea, even though they I think they kind of have, because I think there is a lot of potential there because MotoGP just has a lot of that.

Interest and there are even a lot of interesting storylines like I like. Like I never realized how much Alash never stops talking like you really got that from the MotoGP, like just never stops. And that I love as as a younger sibling that he's like, Alash was just like, I love having Paul here. And then they cut the phone. He's like, I guess he's here.

You know, it's just like clearly you two both don't agree on loving having each other here. So I think you can still get that. And I think that's something that's a hook. I have a friend that loves watching sports movies. So she's gone with me to see like Ford versus Ferrari or, you know, any of those kind of movies or Rush, because she'll watch any sports me.

But she'll never sit down and watch a sport with me. Right. Because watching a sport is boring. But if I can watch just a condensed year, like a drive to survive or rush. That's great.

It's just the highlights. That's all I want. It's like watching Red Zone, just the highlights. See, I think I think the reason MotoGP Unlimited, I think that's what they called it. Yeah, I think that I think it failed because first it came out, it was subtitled.

So the English speaking people, you got to read. Well, I can't I want to see what they're doing, not read what they're doing. So if they would have at least came out of this with a dubbed over sound, I think you would have it would have been better. Now, in contrast to how that was done, think about how the Mark Marquez show about his injury was done. That was brilliant.

But it was done by Mark and his brother and they had control. And, you know, OK, some of how what I'm not trying to talk about the content of what they said. The idea was how they presented it. It was English speaking because they can speak both. There there was some subtitles, I think, in there somewhere when they're doing some things.

But the way that was presented was a much better insight into what a MotoGP rider does than the way Unlimited came at it. And I think part of the problem, too, was everybody. Most people who are somewhat into the know of MotoGP or motorcycling to that extent has watched the faster movies. Yeah. And the way those were done, I think we all wanted MotoGP Unlimited to be a faster movie, but be serious, be serious.

Sorry, not serious. Be serious, be serious, be more than one episode of, you know, you you want it. Ian McGregor narrating something. I don't know why. I feel it.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I get that they're talking about it. And but I want when they went to those breaks and it's like, now it's the next track. I just want to even McGregor to come on and be like, you know, so now today we've gone to Spain.

The championship is this close or whatever it is or, I don't know, Todd always knows this, the guy who does out, right. Truth in 24. It always rings a little long. It's a cake of his name. But you want one of those.

I want one of those voices in there. Yeah. And I think that was where it was that great missed opportunity. Yeah, you're right. You're right.

That would have been great because it is like. So my husband's not into any motorsports. He's married into it, which is always funny, too, that like people are always like, oh, flip muscle love motors. I'm like, you know, but he's also he we have four cats and he's also the one that started with cat number one. So I don't know whatever.

Right. People always think I'm the cat lady. He's the cat gent, but I'm the one that was in motorsports. And so it's always funny because he's like, no, Grace has a podcast on this stuff. So but that was one of the things I was like, oh, you're going to start watching motor GP.

You need to watch faster. Like, I don't you're right. I don't know how you don't watch that movie, even though now it's what? 20 years old. Yeah.

You aren't just like. Grip to buy it. And, you know, because even we've talked about, you know, I, you know, you didn't get to watch Rossi at his prime. Like you really it's like watching Michael Schumacher at Mercedes. Like you've only watched this like trickle of his.

What made, you know, everybody is still like, oh, Valentino Rossi. And so it's like we start watching old races, but something like faster also really like gives you that feeling. I think you're absolutely right. I think that's that's listen, if anybody's listening to this, this is what you should do. Take that movie, find your producers, slide that movie across and go, I want eight episodes like this.

Don't come back. Don't come back with eight that aren't like this. Absolutely. Because I don't know how you couldn't be into that. And then I think.

Another thing that I've recently only recently ever come to with motorsports is that. One of the things that turns new fans off is gatekeeping. Right. So, again, we talk about this a lot in Formula One, that there are gatekeeping from drive to survive fans. Well, you've only just started watching.

You don't know what it was like in the 70s. But one of the things I think that especially as a woman, but as any new fan, nobody does these things. So like if I start, if I used to have to go to a bar to watch football games and guys that start talking to me and I'm like, well, I actually am here to watch the game, but thanks, that's nice. And inevitably, somebody will ask some guy will ask me something else, say something and he'll go, well, you never played this sport. So how could you know?

They can't say that in motorsports. None of you are Lewis Hamilton. None of you are Max Bianchi. You are like, so maybe you've driven a car and maybe you own a bike, but that's not the same as MotoGP. So I do think there's some level of acceptance.

It's easier for a novice because you're just a fan who's watched longer. That's the only way you can gatekeep because very few of us are racecar drivers or very few of us are, you know, motorcycle riders on that level that can gatekeep in the same way that guys can because they all played football apparently when they were eight and that makes them an expert on the sport. So to me, like bring in the novice. I mean, that's the that's the whole that's the whole point. And as more fans are like, wow, this racing is kind of boring for the one.

I'm like, yeah, good. You're watching like you're getting it. This is a lot of races and they're not all really compelling, just like every other sport. And so that's good. But that's how we're going to build that.

That's how you make that leap from a drive to survive or a faster into long term watching of the sport. And you can find community now. I mean, that's how Todd and I found each other was that like he was an American in the Midwest. I was American on the East Coast. And I don't know anybody else that watches the sport.

So I went to a message board, you know, I was just like, does anybody talk about this sport? Because nobody talks about Formula One. And he was the only other person that did it. And that's, you know, I guess the rest is history. But that community is much easier to find now because of the Internet.

You know, we're not, you know, we're not all just stuck in our basements anymore. Yeah, I was that way with I was that way with MotoGP. It was like, like, OK, there's no one else that I know. Back in. I want to call it like early 2000s or whatever.

I mean, obviously, I've been following 500 Grand Prix from the time I was about 10 years old in the in the 80s. And I'd wait a week to get the cycle news out of the mailbox, because that's how you found out about it. Just like waiting for an auto spark copy or whatever it is. But the the thing that was was there is that you can't underestimate the power of a series like Drive to Survive. I have we have my wife and I have friends who they're like, hey, we've been you guys ever watch this drive to survive show?

My wife like, is that the Formula One one? And they're like, yeah, yeah. And they're driving all over the world in these really cool cars with wings. I'm like, I'm like, yeah, I've been there since like 1974. Guys, I what do you want to know?

So my reaction to it is I don't want to gatekeep. Right. My reaction to him was like, well, what do you want to know? Because you don't know the politics that's happened. You don't understand FISA, FOCA.

You don't understand Marie Ballast of that. I think there's a history with MotoGP that's there, too, that the casual fan doesn't know, but there has to be a way for them to to learn that. And it's not it seems like it's just not widely available to you, to everyone. Yes, it's much better with the Internet. I get all of that.

But there's that weird nuance. I mean. But that's the bad part. That's just that part. But the other thing, another thing to me, I ask you from your side, because your perspective is so different than mine, because I've raced bikes.

I've done club. I've drugged my knees. I know. I know what these guys are thinking. I'm just not good enough to have done it at their level.

That's I fully understand that whole philosophy. But to me, I kind of lost track. I thought of where I was going, which is normal. Not most of the time. But is that the idea of of that the illusion of being able to be there?

Right. Like you said, everybody can ride a car, can drive a car. Right. Some people can can can ride a motorcycle, but a vast majority of people cannot. So to me, I don't understand why the wonder of the person sitting on the couch isn't more intrigued by someone doing something crazy with a motorcycle as opposed to doing car racing, which you could argue.

Yeah, I can drive a car. I could do that, too. But the two are people somehow are on the couch thinking that's amazing what Lewis Hamilton is doing or Max Verstappen or whoever. Yet no one sits there and thinks the same way about what Marquez is doing on a bike or what Benyai has done on a bike or what Martina has done on a bike. I just don't I don't understand that.

I'm saying, well, that doesn't translate. I mean, I do. I mean, there probably is some negative bias towards motorcycles. So I tell the story, too, that, you know, I was. Oh, now the podcast is official.

Ziggy shown up. So you get the full the full podcast experience. But I think that so I was, you know, at a work meeting, you know, we went out for dinner afterwards. And so, you know, we know each other as co-workers or colleagues. We're kind of like, you know, who's kids?

What do you do with your spare time? How's your life? And one guy says, oh, I have I have a motorcycle without missing a beat. One of the person gets, oh, I hate motorcycles. There's people on the beltway because, you know, people on bikes, right?

Cut between the traffic, which I hate, too. And they come. So you're sitting in a standstill and somebody comes flying up past you like 90 miles per hour on this bike. It scares the crap out of you. I'm always afraid I'm going to turn lanes into somebody because they're not where I expect them to be because they're not in a lane.

And that was like her instant reaction. I was like, oh, well, do you happen to watch motorcycle racing? And so we just like transition to like this 20 minute, very fast conversation that nobody else at the table understood. But they were like, I don't know who Rossi is, but you both are very excited about this. So I think that could be part of I never really had thought of that.

But that could be part of it, that people just like have such a negative visceral reaction to like bikes in the world or that you're going to just end up being like. You know, pavement, you end up on the pavements, you know, or something like that, maybe that has something to do with it. But I'm like, these are professionals. I mean, they still, of course, have accidents and they're so, of course, you know, things that happen to the track, but it's very different than driving on the DC beltway with bikes running in between the cars like they do. But maybe that's part of it, whereas cars, we all kind of have at most people in America drive them.

So we have we have to have some relationship with them that we don't have to have with bikes. But I don't know. Get over it. Those are those are two different people. I once had I once yelled at a guy, you know, he had it, you know, because you'll see bikes and they have all the like livery stickers on them.

Right. And I'm like, he like flew up between. I'm going to be out the window like, yo, Dave Pedro's a knock at the, you know, off. And I was like, oh, I shouldn't be yelling out the window of people. But maybe he would just give me props because I knew who's think that was.

I don't know. It's just I don't know. I maybe people I don't know, because clearly I don't. And clearly you don't because we watch this sport. And I literally talk every week since like episode four of our podcast.

We're like on episodes 873 or something. Moto GP comes up every week. So maybe I'm not the right person to ask how you get into this. But I don't I don't because I don't know why. I don't know why more people aren't watching it because it's it's the content is there.

Especially if you buy the app, there's a lot of historical races if you watch it on the PC, if you watch it on your computer, don't be watching on Apple TV. You don't get anything on Apple TV. That is the frustration I have with the app. I mean, you want you watch on your computer, though, it's great. You get a lot of content.

I mean, if I watch it on my computer, I love it because I can have three cameras. I can split it. I can see I can have whatever. Like, I'm so nerdy to it like, oh, hey, whoa, huh? Acosta qualified back here on row six.

Hmm. But give me the helicopter because I want to see him coming. Give me the commentary on the main screen. And oh, by the way, give me an onboard from from from from one of the other bikes, Jake Dixon's or Tony Arberlino's or something like that. And then I'm going to watch the race that way.

And it's just it's intriguing that's there. And I don't know. I think there's a story. And somehow I think the story isn't translated down to the average person. I mean, so get your thoughts on this.

Formula one wants to go to the lowest common denominator. We're always talking about how we go through qualifying every weekend. Hey, you take the we're eliminating five cars and then we're going to do this again for another 20 on and on and on. It's ad nauseam. I'm I'm I get it.

I'm done. We don't do that in Moto GP, but we also seem to be talking at a level that's much higher than the person who's just kind of sliding in. I saw this channel flipping, but I don't know what it is per se. And there's got to be some there's something in between. I think there has to be because you're not going to get people are just going to go by because if you're talking to too far, you know, I don't I just there's something in between.

Yeah, no, absolutely. And I think that. Yeah, because you kind of have to because just if you just listen to the like track side interviews, I mean, this is true in any sport, right? It's coach speak. They all just say like, well, we're just going to have to do better in the second half.

Thanks. That's great. Coach speak. I know nothing about what your strategy is, because of course, I don't want to tell them what their strategy is. So I think just track side, if you don't have you just have interviews, some like some interviews, some people tell you things like, I can't believe that person just said that.

But most of the time, you know, it's it's coach speak. But, you know, you kind of have to have somebody that translates that for you or why that's important, especially because here there isn't a lot of content. So if you aren't watching with other humans or somebody might go, oh, that's because you don't know about this beef between so and so and so and so from 10 years ago that they're still beefing about now. Right. Or they're also the thing.

Right. Like you really there's some history there. But even on the moon, like they put a whole bunch of like clips, like if somebody said to me, why is Casey Stoner like, why do you all talk about Casey Stoner? Right. Like they put together this video.

I'm like, oh, yeah, that's why. Right. Like, so I think that there's you have to always have to have some content about that, regardless of what sport it is, because otherwise that is where the gatekeeping happens. Right. Because somebody has like, yeah, I don't I don't know.

I'm a Steelers fan. Like if somebody's like, why do you all talk about Lynn Swan all the time? Like you have to be able to find that answer, because otherwise you're not going to understand Steelers football in the 70s. And that's an important time period. Right.

So for that team. So I think that you have that with every sport. But I think it's harder when it's a sport that isn't popular in the country you live in. But I do think that, again, the app, the PC app, not the Apple TV app, has that kind of content. You can kind of get up on this history in a kind of like a faster kind of way.

Why this matters and who these people are. And MotoGP in its current form is so very young in that sense. Again, unlike Formula One, where it's like, oh, well, back in 1942. And I'm like, OK, that's that's a long time ago. And I don't I don't remember any of that stuff.

Whereas, you know, some people just can like, oh, yeah, Amala 1967. That was so and so when that race. I didn't even know we were at Amala 1967. Somebody is now going to send you a comment that says, Grace, we were not at Amala 1967, and I don't know why you said that, because I don't remember those kind of things. But, you know, I think that you have to have space to like.

You want to give people enough that they understand and they want to look it up. Like, you don't have to point out every important person to me, but you have to have enough that people can kind of have a hook like, oh. My you know, Max, you know, Max Beagy, what why why is that important or Danny Pedroza, right? Like that I I forget people for some people. This is the only exposure they've ever had to who Danny Pedroza is.

Right. And. Yep. And to me, I was like, oh, it was like yesterday he was on the track. And so people like, why is that such a big deal?

Right. I think you have to have a way. And I think the more Moto GP can say, here's the way. Come to come to our site first for that. Like we're the Wikipedia of Moto GP, not Wikipedia.

Come here first for this information. Yep. And then, you know, through their more pay services, you can provide more of that like historic content. But that should be your first place you go for that information. Not, you know, not my podcast.

Right. Like you should you should start with an informed source. Talk about like informing things. I don't understand why. Simon Kreyfarr does some very good technical lectures.

It's kind of like Steve Match's chalk talk for those of you who knew from the one back in the days of speed. The problem is, they're just like on Instagram and it's a minute and a half. Why isn't that in there's a dedicated break that you have between Moto three to Moto two, Moto two to Moto GP? And there's also this huge lead up that happens between the end of Moto two qualifying to the sprint race. There's roughly 90 minutes or something, I think, in between because it's the lunch hour and I get all that.

But why aren't you showing some technical things? I appreciate the pre-race and talking to the riders and to pit personnel. And you talked to maybe Harvey Ponterell or or whoever in. All those guys, they're all important people, but I don't know why they're not mixing in technical segments. That's there to give you that again.

Well, that was kind of really cool. Maybe I need to now look for that little bit. Like I love I love Paul when he's talking about tires and how this works or that works and those things. It's like when I watch the race next time, I try to look at that because I've got some now knowledge base that's there, which I think Moto GP lacks for some reason. I think when I went to the Formula One race the first year at Austin in 2012 and Paul and I just walked around the track together and absolutely.

I, you know, and so we came back and it's kind of the question you ask, like, how do we get more people to watch this? And my answer was you need a Paul. You need to go to a racetrack with Paul, who then says, did you see how he did that? Now watch how this guy takes his turn versus that guy. Now see why he does that.

And then you don't even be like, oh, did you hear that? I'm like, no, it sounded like an engine. You know, you hear that like this high note sputtering. That's because his engines are going to get like. So they're absolutely go go to a Formula One race with Paul is very helpful, very quickly for that kind of stuff.

And you get that from the pod of, you know, what to look for and what to pay attention to. And you're right, Moto GP doesn't really have space for that. And I was trying to think maybe it was like. I watched World Superbike in maybe 10 years, which kind of breaks my heart. But I think it's true.

Talk about aggravating. I pay for the app to watch Moto GP, but you want me to pay for the app for World Superbike to. Could you throw me a bone, Dorn? Could I get a discount? Could I get a few races free?

Again, you want eyeballs? And yet you're here's an easy way to do it. And that racing, because I always tell people to like. Go to this go to a lower series like when we went to any car was in Baltimore for three years. And so I convinced a bunch of friends to go to the Baltimore GP with me.

I'm like, but come on Saturday, because Saturday is when it's all the like junior series, right? And that's when it's going to be interesting, because those guys are fighting for their life. Whereas the race on Sunday, those guys are going, oh, you can go pass. I got a race next week. Like they're thinking marathon.

But when you go to the lower series, they're like, it's it. I may not be here for the next race. And so I think you kind of get a little bit of that in World Superbike. It's a little punchier. But I can't remember now who the announcers were, but they had the one guy that would do like that was the Simon Cray fall that would do like he would take you around the track like on a bike.

But they always just then whoever was the like the color commentator, the main broadcaster, just would ask questions. So what would it feel like when you went through this turn? What was he thinking about? Like those kind of questions, which is what you're thinking about at home. Right.

Like I just I always thought that approach was and he would ask questions that I'm like, that's a dumb question. But I'm glad you asked it, because there's somebody at home that's thinking that same thing. Like so they had. You know, that person just asking novice questions, if you will, because then that's how you get people engaged as well, because then you could say, look, I don't I don't ride a bike, right? I'm here because I'm a good, you know, color commentator, and I'm able to say a lot of stuff really fast and talk about things.

But I'm not a motorcycle guy, but you are. So why did he do that? Why did he think that was a good idea? Because to me, watching at home, that doesn't look like a good idea. And that's the kind of con conversation that you need to have, if not during the race, then like after the race, because you're right, there's plenty of time for that of like, you know, what would Paul say while watching this?

Like, what questions would he say to me? Like, did you see that? Did you see that there? That's what that's what helps you learn. And like when I saw I watched football my life, but I don't I I don't necessarily know all the nuance until I played Madden.

The tutorial of Madden was the best way to learn football, right? Because it takes you through every play and then you get to play as every player. And it's like, OK, you're the quarterback. You have like three seconds to look here. That guy is supposed to be there, but he's not there.

So now you look here and you got it. So how do you get that kind of like Madden tutorial for motorsports of all kind? And I think that Sims do offer that, but the MotoGP Sim is super hard. Although you do have great, great ragdolling flying off the bike, but I can't not gotten our heads wrapped around that one yet. But some way for people to get that information.

Yeah. You know, they used to have this thing. And I'll be like my age here back in the 80s. Yeah. And I was a wee, wee kid back then.

They had this series and it was on ESPN. And it was called I'll butcher this or whatever. But it was like a it was an experience show. So basically it was Darrell Waltrip explains NASCAR. Nikki Lada explains Formula One.

Freddie Spencer explains motorcycle race, and they were 30 minutes and they would they would explain what was what was going on in the show. It was it was quick. You could take a take a bite of it. Like, as an example, Nikki, Nikki Lada would tell you what downforce did to a car, what turning a wing up or turning a wing down did. And then they would go kind of away from Nikki's technical explanation of it to here.

We're going to show you an example of this. And they used Porsche 928. Here's what a draft does. And you could see it from a helicopter. You can see this.

The you know, Freddie Spencer, I will never forget this. They were at Laguna Seca, the old track before it was actually the went around the dry lake and it was two point two miles. Like I think it was like one point nine, one point six or something like that. And the older configuration of it. They said, we're going to show you how fast the Grand Prix motorcycle is.

They rolled out a Nissan 300 Z. Had the guy who was a driving instructor of the track driving it. Well, he gets a lead. Well, 20 seconds later, Sam McDonald, a 700 Sabre Honda says, takes off after him to catch him. Oh, yeah.

Well, it's been about 30 seconds since Sam left. And, oh, it's been about a minute since the car left. And well, Freddie's going to get on the bike and go. Get on the bike and go. And Freddie passes everybody in this like one point seven mile lap.

That's eye opening. Right. That visual is insane. Like, whoa, wait a second. If you did that today, pick whatever track you want it.

You do the same sort of a thing, condense it to a 30 minute little special that you could blast out. People would be would be gobsmacked by how fast Benyai or Marquez or Alash could get around a track with their Moto GP bike compared to and a guy on a street bike compared to a car that you think of as a really fast car. I mean, you could put an accurate NSX there. You could put a Porsche 911, whatever ticket pick. And this thing is still going to be faster around here than that.

That's a mind opening thing. Again, that's a that's a money issue. It's a time issue. It's getting everybody together. You know, people are going to argue lawyers would be involved.

It's going to be a mess. But that's a great I thought I always thought that was a great idea. It's one of the things that I loved about it, because like there's that little nuance in there. You know, yeah. No, no, go ahead.

I was done. I was going to say, but it takes something that you understand. Like you understand a road car, right? Even if you've never driven a Porsche, you understand. Road car.

I got that. You know, and it applies what you know. And it just builds on that thing. You already know it's like algebra or something, right? Like we're just going to keep building on that thing.

Right. And so it gives you that space to know. And for sure, there are plenty of car YouTube channels, the two very similar kinds of things, right? Where you can, you know, show that, you know, this car versus this car, which one's going to get the fish faster and, you know, and in different sports. But I think I think you're right.

Like what what is that information? How do you how do you package that for people? And I, you know, I think that's true, too. I often talk about speaking about Steve Machen on the speed days. They used to do the old rate like old races and he would take the two hour race and do it in a half an hour.

And they were called decades. And so we do the whole season. Those were great because like brilliant. I didn't live through night. I didn't watch from I lived through 94.

But I wasn't watching Formula One in 1994. But any Formula One fan knows that 1994 was such a. Or here. Yeah, right. And it's yeah.

And so it was like. And so much changed because of that year. And so it was like when we got to 94 and decades, I was like, I can at least consume it. And especially because that's when Steve was a mechanic. So your ability to consume that race with somebody who was there and experienced these things and could tell you about like, and this is why we have this now.

And this is why things look like this now. And to give you that history, man, if somebody just did decades for Moto GP races, even if it was just like the most, you know, the eight most important races in a season or something like that, that would also really get you that that history very quickly of understanding how how we got to this point in a way that that makes sense. And that would be, you know, I would watch that. I'd watch that now. I don't know why Moto GP doesn't put that out on there.

On their streaming service. So last thing I want to talk about the idea, the illusion of access. So NASCAR, as you said on your pod numerous times, they give you this idea that you can really reach out and touch these people and get an autograph and all of this. There's a huge amount of exclusivity in Formula One. We are not getting to the Piranha Club as it's called.

We're not getting in there. But Moto GP, I think, has to walk somewhere in the middle. If you think about it, motorcycle racing is kind of like. For the masses, it's the haves and the have yachts are over here. One of the one right.

Right. But the average guy can buy a ten thousand dollar, thousand CC bike, throw another five grand at it and go race it if he wants to. It's kind of it's it's not that simple. And I understand that, guys. I don't want to hate me.

But but the idea but the idea was like you can buy a ticket and go to the racetrack. Cool. But what does that get me? What do I get? I get nothing, essentially.

What if I went and bought the ticket to go to Austin and I'm sitting there not seeing Moto3 warm up and Moto2 warm up on Sunday because somebody's got all the riders on the flatbed truck and they're driving it around the track. That is that seems worthless to me because that's not there. Doesn't seem to work with like Moto GP at one point at Indy. Well, it was there. They gave you a pass.

You could buy a pass. It was reasonable. It was like one hundred fifty bucks, maybe two hundred by the end of it. But you could get into the garage area. Now, that didn't mean you were walking into the garages on pit lane, but you had access to the area behind it.

So you could see Rossi right up on a scooter and everybody flocked to him and get an autograph. You could see Mark Marquez and get an autograph. You could get the ampersand, get an autograph, whatever that was. Now, I know this past year at Austin, they had an I had an autograph session for lack of better term in my memory. But you had to pay like one hundred and thirty bucks for it.

Now, what did they buy me? Did they buy me the ability to to to to get into me an autograph? I don't understand that how they're looking at that. But I think that's one of the things that the last thing that they need to kind of fix is access. I know I understand I'm not going to get I get that I'm not getting the benefits, you know?

Yeah, I'm not expecting dinner with Petco tonight, right? Like, right. Right. I'm reasonable. But you're you're right, because especially like, I think again, going to a football game here, like, why would I want to do that?

Football takes too long. There's too many breaks in the action and everybody is drunk and toxic. Why do I want to go to a football game? I don't. Right.

And so even if it's my team and we're winning, it's not really necessarily how you want to spend it. So when I could be at home with my own snacks and my own alcohol and not have to deal with all of that. So and not drive somewhere and try to find parking and whatever, whatever. So how do you make going to a track, especially because for many of us, we watch a sport that we never go to, which is also kind of an interesting thing, I think, too, from our fan perspective. I mean, even formula, I really thought about that one.

I've only ever been to six races in my entire 20 year span of watching it. And most of it's Montreal. You know, it's not like I've been. I don't live in Europe, so it's not very easy for me just like to go to a bunch of tracks. And so I've gone in the US and I've gone to Montreal and I had friends that lived in Abu Dhabi.

So we went there. That's it. I'm not I'm not, you know, globe trotting around all over the place. I've only ever been to one MotoGP race and not at a very good MotoGP friendly track. So how do you convince people that they want to spend this money to come to your event?

And some of it is kind of like full circle with that ice hockey experience like you're talking about, like to be there and to watch it. But it isn't you don't get to see everything. You know, you always like try to have to figure out where the screens are because, you know, you you and again, before phones, right, you like have to watch whatever go by and look at a screen and then watch it go by again because you can't see the whole track. And so why would you want to come to this? So what exposure do you get?

What what do you get for your box? I think Austin, we ended up calling somebody because we couldn't figure out, well, like, what were the differences between the like, I understand the differences between general admission and bleacher and like grandstands, right? Like, I understand those concepts, but then they had like other hospitality. Like, what am I getting here? What am I going to?

I shouldn't have to show up there and go, oh, you mean I can't go to the panic. I thought that was a part of this. We ended up just calling somebody because we couldn't figure out from the website. But I agree. What what is that on the ground experience going to be?

What is where the food vendors, what are the bathrooms look like? What is the parking like? And I only have I've been there once for the Formula One race. So I have some idea, but you're right. I think that like I don't have an expectation that I'm going to be in the box, you know, like that little roped off box that they now have at MotoGP, too.

Like they have the Formula One races. I'm not going to be hanging out with like Elon and, you know, Kevin Magnuson's wife watching the race. I don't want that. I don't I don't expect that. But there's something other than general admission and that.

Yeah, it's very hard to know. And yet you have to make that experience worth it because people are sitting outside in the sun for hours for this. Why do they want to do that? So I want to do it. I go to hockey games, go to NHL games.

I go to Columbus, I see the Blue Jackets play. But it's entertaining there, the in-rink entertainment, the tossing out of T-shirts, the free pizzas, those things of a little kid gets that pizza box. He's hooked because that's where he got it. If he gets a T-shirt, he's got it. Where is OK, this is me.

If you put all the guys on the flatbed truck and you're running around the track, I realize you can't exactly like with a T-shirt out there for somebody. But a T-shirt gun? Have them go have them just walk by. I don't care. It doesn't even really have to be the riders who do it.

It's just somebody's throwing out randomly a T-shirt that says go to 2025 MotoGP on. You are going to be stoked to get that. But there's none of that. There's there's there's so many there's so many down times that happen during a race weekend that there is not on track activity that can be filled by small little things that would be that would make it better, I think. I think you're right.

I was you were talking about that. So basketball games, I love going to basketball games. The same thing. There is never a moment you aren't entertained. They're either somebody's dancing.

Little kids are playing basketball. Somebody's trying to, you know, sink a half court shot to get free Lasik surgery. They're throwing stuff in the crowd. They're dropping burritos like you are. If you are bored and a basketball and I watch the Wizards, the Wizards are terrible and it's entertaining.

And sometimes like the halftime entertaining is better than the basketball game. But you're never if you are bored, what are you doing? Right. There's always something happening. And you're right.

If there isn't a full, you know, like going to like Montreal for the Formula One race from like eight o'clock in the morning to like four o'clock at night, there is always somebody on track. There's always a support race or like the rich guy Ferraris or the like whatever. Somebody is racing. There's always something you could be watching. And you have to build that whole weekend for people so that they do come.

I mean, I think to me, this when the sprint races were introduced in Formula One, that was my big thing. I like sprint races are a terrible idea unless you're there. I think if you're at the track, sprint races are a great idea, because now you did. You filled three days of stuff with some Formula One each day. That isn't just practice, which isn't very interesting.

But yeah, I think what is that? What is that fan experience at the track side? Because you're right. That one. That is what that is what makes a lifetime fan like, oh, I got this thing or had this experience or like, you know, oh, my God, it's Jack Miller.

Right. Like, I don't really don't have it like I don't have that dinner with Jack Miller. It's like, OK, like, be cool, be cool. He's just a person. Right.

He's just a person like me, just a human. It's OK. Be cool. Right. Like, I'm not going to be cool.

But, you know, I think that is what makes difference. People and that kind of it doesn't it doesn't have to be. And that's because an illusion. I will put that out there, too. That access is an illusion, but it is an illusion that they've they've built well.

And I think everyone has a lot of access if you're able to get into the paddock. You know, when we used to fly into Austin and, you know, you got to go out, find a place to eat all that stuff. We would sometimes run into a lot of the guys from the track. I've seen Roman Fanati. I've seen I've seen.

Louis Catalora, I've seen Danny Ferdros at these restaurants eating. Yeah. And what's what's shocking to me, it can be a Friday night in Austin and nobody recognizes them. No. So that's my whole thing.

It's like I get OK. Yes. If I pick that up, I put it in Spain. I put it in Italy. I think somebody is going to recognize these guys.

I just wish we could figure out how to make it so that it's recognizable here. And I think we've I think we've done pretty good in the rough hour that we've been doing as we we decided that, hey, you got to get eyeballs. I've got to be there. If you want eyeballs, put the sport on something that is eyeball catching ESPN here in the United States. It's not just the app.

What's your fan experience like improve that whole concept? Show me some illusion of value that I get something else that's there. And don't take away race and give me more on track action for the dollar that I'm spending. So that's it. We've we solved it all.

Grace, there it is. Everybody's listening. We solved it. And Indianapolis, that was the thing, because Indianapolis, I'm sorry, I write in Indianapolis a lot, but they have like three restaurants. I saw so many riders that we like.

I just remember one time walking down the street this way. And I'm like, wait, I think that was what I was Jorge Lorenzo. Oh, my goodness. Like, again, it's OK. He's a person.

And I just and on his like Twitter feed, he was like, I'm looking for a place to have sushi. I'm like, do I tweet back and go, you just walked past me. There's no sushi in Indianapolis, buddy. Like, have you never been here before? Like, yeah.

St. Helens, but they don't have sushi. They have shrimp and they have steak. We can go there, you know. But yeah, that's true.

I guess I had to practice my like game face, my like don't don't don't freak out. Yeah, they're famous. It's OK. Yeah, that's true. Yeah.

But it'll be fun. I'm looking forward to it. And I will continue to spread, spread the joy of MotoGP until you're all watching it, because I don't know why you're not watching it. All right. With that, Grace, I'm going to say thank you for your time.

And we will catch everyone either on the Park for May podcast or your MotoPod. That's right. Thanks, Grace.